the good Samaritan

JC,

For what it's worth, my working premise is that we are all "saved" by virtue of having been born. Of course this has gotten me into hot water with my christian friends.

I think Jesus teaching was in line with many of the other great religious teachers and traditions: be honest, be kind.

There's a story I heard that goes like this, I'm paraphrasing since it's been awhile:

One day a young disciple addressed his master, he was concerned for a friend who was not following the faith of their order, "Master, my friend does not devote himself to the glory of god and I worry for his soul."

"To what does your friend devote himself?"

"All day long he tends the flowers in his garden, and he takes in the stray cats of the neighborhood."

"Don't trouble yourself, there is his service to god."

I get you. My understanding of that particular story is that the Samaritans would be considered a different faith (tribe) and the fact the the Samaritan was "good" implies that common thought was that they were all "bad" - in other words today we'd have the story of The Good Muslim - someone that helped a Christian in need.

The fact was that at that time and locale there were about as many faiths as there were tribes.

I bet you could find a good analysis of the story in the Anchor Bible section on Luke. The Anchor Bible is like the Oxford English Dictionary and provides a wealth of historical and cultural background to each book individually. One day, if I win the lotto, I'm going to add the set to my Libraray, along with the OED.

There may be another explanation for this - in the languages the Bible was written in, "good" basically meant / was the same word as "godly" so the actual text might have been more like the godly samaritan

I have always discounted the notion that any "God" would be so immature or vain as to insist that we worship him (in modern terms of the word) rather than live a good (godly) life (again, modern terms). In ancient terms it would have worship / love / etc. of God would have meant living life honoring "His" rules, not bending a knee for 1 hour and mumbling certain words every 7th day. All the people who seem to believe that "God" would care that you went to a certain church, meant him when you used the word "God" or believed in any deity at all certainly have no idea who an all powerful all knowing entity is.

All the people who seem to believe that "God" would care that you went to a certain church, meant him when you used the word "God" or believed in any deity at all certainly have no idea who an all powerful all knowing entity is.

I follow a particular religion, but that is by choice, by comfort. I don't believe that there is one better than another. They all serve the same purpose. As to the question was the samaritan a Jew. Are we talking nationality or religion. I dont think they had a labelling system quite as corrupt as ours at that time. 

jcatcom,

I think you are missing the point in the parable that Jesus was making. It has nothing to do with salvation for Jews or non Jews. The story of the good Samaritan is told in Luke's gospel chapter 10, verses 25-37.

It does begin with a Jewish lawyer testing Jesus by asking what should I do to inherit eternal life. Jesus responds with a question; what is your understanding of the law (God's). The lawyers response was to love God with all your heart, soul, strength and mind and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Jesus tells him you've answered well. The lawyer then wanting to justify himself asks who is my neighbor. It is at this point that Jesus gives what is commonly called the parable of the good Samaritan.

In the story, Jesus tells about a Jew who is robbed, beaten and left to die. People walk by him without helping. They include supposedly righteous Jews a priest and a Levite. Then comes a Samaritan who helps in many ways. He attends to his wounds, transports him to others for care and pays for that care.

Jesus then asks who was the neighbor and the lawyer answers rightly that it was the Samaritan.

Samaritans, as has been stated by others may have been partially descendents of the 10 tribes broken off from Judah who intermarried with the locals of the area. According to the Jewish historian Josephus, they were opportunists who identified with the Jews when they were prosperous but pointing to Assyrian ancestry when the Jews were being subjugated. They did not worship in Jerusalem but had built their own temple which caused real problems with the Jews and they accepted only the first 5 books of Moses as scripture. They were despised by the Jews. It would have a been a great insult to the Jews to imply that they were being more godly than the Jews themselves of the time who were self righteous.

Jesus was teaching here that when God directs us to love our neighbors, that they are not just those who believe like we do. Everyone is our neighbor from this theological perspective. The parable does not teach salvation for all however in response to your question.

So the Samaritan is someone to be loved as a neighbor, but not someone who would go to heaven?

Never said that. Just pointed out that the story has nothing to do with the conclusion you want to draw from it.

eph289 Very good comments.

Just wondering if Jesus was saying that this person would go to heaven and, if so, what are the ramifications of that.

The bible is really silent on this point. He was using him as an example of what it means to love your neighbor not how or who gets to heaven.

jcatom. Jesus always had a reason for what he said. He agreed with the lawyer's answer. To love God is to obey him. The parable pointed out everyone is you neighbor and you should help those in need, even foreigners The sheep and the goats in Matthew 25 relates to this. The sheep were admitted to heave for helping others. The goats were sent away for not helping those in need. Jesus said Anyone who helps he least of these in my name will not lose his reward in heaven.

EPH289

Just wondering if Jesus was saying that this person would go to heaven and, if so, what are the ramifications of that.

The bible is really silent on this point. He was using him as an example of what it means to love your neighbor not how or who gets to heaven.

He would be juidged on his whole life, not just this one incident."Stand before God and give an account of everything done on earth, good and bad" The bible does leave this subject open but taking it as a whole it seems that good non Christians could get to heaven.

jcatom

This parable, to me, shows the non-exclusivity of Jesus' teaching. Something that seems to get lost in most Christian tradition.

Paul taught the teaching of Jesus was for alo, not just Jews.

The Samaritan is not only someone who should be considered a neighbor, but someone who considers others to be his neighbor, in the way that Jesus says we should. There isn't a caveat about the religion to which this person adheres. He could have been Buddhist or Hindu.

It does in a way. The Jews of that time thought only Jews were favored by God. Jesus repeatedly told them God's words were for everyone.

Most Christians I know will say that followers of Buddhism and Hinduism aren't going to heaven just because they're good people. They have to accept Jesus.

Most Christians- and most non Christians- don't know the teaching of Jesus.
They have to accept Jesus.

Accept means follow his laws.
The greatest commandment, really the only one - is to love God, that is obey his commandments, whether or not you have heard of Jesus.
A Christian who believes in Jesus and repents can have past sins forgiven. That is the advantage to Christians for all sins must be accounted for.

I think you are missing the point in the parable that Jesus was making. It has nothing to do with salvation for Jews or non Jews. The story of the good Samaritan is told in Luke's gospel chapter 10, verses 25-37.

EPH is exactly right on this one. Jesus was using an illustration of a group that was universally looked down on by the dominant culture who did a good deed and then compared that to the lack of compassion of people who are considered the most "upright" citizens.

Here is the Good Samaritan as recast today.

On one occasion an Fundamentalist preacher stood up to test Jesus. "Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "What is written in the Law?" he replied. "How do you read it?" He answered: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" "You have answered correctly," Jesus replied. "Do this and you will live." But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. Jerry Fallwell happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, George Soros, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But an illegal alien just coming from Mexico, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn in Tucson and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'

"Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?"
The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus told him, "Go and do likewise."

Jesus looks to the heart of things, not the appearance.

Jesus was all about attitude. What attitude do you have toward God and your fellow man. Many many times he railed against hard hearts and institutionalized attitudes of moral superiority. Sound familiar?

Here is the parable of the Publican and the Pharisee recast to modern players

To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one was Al Gore and the other a Oil Company Exectutive. Al Gore stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this Oil company executive. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.' But the Oil company executive stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.' I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

It's all about the attitude.

Jesus rocks.

OK

He would be juidged on his whole life, not just this one incident."Stand before God and give an account of everything done on earth, good and bad" The bible does leave this subject open but taking it as a whole it seems that good non Christians could get to heaven.

Please forgive me if I'm wrong but it seems to me you are indicating that your intrepretation of scripture is that whether we get into heaven or not is dependent upon our works of righteousness. A weighing if you will of our good and bad and if the good outweighs the bad, God will welcome us in.

I try to base my beliefs on what would be called a systematic theology approach to the bible. That is equivalent in my mind to this definition:

A. Definition of Systematic Theology
Systematic theology is any study that answers the question, "What does the whole Bible teach us today?" about any given topic. (from Systematic Theology, Copyright © 1994 by Wayne Grudem. All rights reserved.)

Using that concept as a basis, I have come to the conclusion that the only way to heaven is through faith in Jesus.

EPH

Absolutely!

Which is what I stated on #4. Don't Catholics believe that it is faith and good works that get you into heaven and protestants believe it is by faith alone?

fromthesouth--It depends on following the teaching of Jesus.
"Even the devils believe God exists"
"Be doers, not just hearers of the word"
"Show me your faith and i will show you my works"
"Faith without works are dead"
"You will give an account to god of every deed on earth, good or bad."

EPH289

Please forgive me if I'm wrong but it seems to me you are indicating that your intrepretation of scripture is that whether we get into heaven or not is dependent upon our works of righteousness. A weighing if you will of our good and bad and if the good outweighs the bad, God will welcome us in.

I read the bible-and all books- as written, without interpretation. Peter said, "Do not follow any interpretation from man but only that which comes from God."

Jesus said

The greatest commandment is to love God.
To love god is to obey his commandments
Those who obey the commandments are the children of God.
The children of God share Jesus' inheritance in heaven-eternal life.

From this to get to heaven people must obey the commandments. There is not a weighing of good and bad, 51% good gets you in. EVERY sin must be paid for. Belief in Jesus and repentance erases all past sins. God does not even remember them and we will not have to account for them. For a non Christian no sins are forgiven, all must be accounted for. Believing in Jesus, repenting and following the commandments guarantees entrance to heaven. But this does not mean others cannot get to heaven, only that it will be more difficult for them to enter.

Using that concept as a basis, I have come to the conclusion that the only way to heaven is through faith in Jesus.

It is the only guaranteed way.

EPH... Faith in Jesus... as what?

Leaves it kind of open-ended, don't you think?

Let's finish it off some: Faith in Jesus as the only begotten Son of God, the Lord and Saviour of all mankind.

:)

Space Guy - that recasting of the parable rocks - remind me to use it over the next few days.

Thank you kindly.

Seems my Grandma would likely be in agreement with the good fellow: the three things in life you have no control of are; who is good, who is bad, and whom you fall in love with.

WOW, guys. Some really interesting comments here.

Personally, not a big fan of organized religion of ANY type. I also think the Bible is equivalent to a first grade primer, like the ones they used in the 1800's. A primer for what, you may ask? I say it teaches the beginnings of an advanced moral and ethical code, and leaves us to work on it and fill in the blanks.

Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed...all important religious figures. At the time, I don't think any of them really SOUGHT to create a religion, they just wanted to make the world a better place. As such, they are inter-woven in the fabric of time. The same, but not the same....get it?

Pharisee, Jew, Samaritan, Christian, Muslim, Mexican...they're all HUMAN. That's what is important. Single acts will not get you in, either, but Jesus was trying to say that the Samaritan's single act in the story was indicative of how he lived his life.

Lastly, when you look at a spiritual concept, remember the following: "Believe nothing, not even if I say it, if it does not resonate within you as truth."
-Buddha-

Well said, Buddha, well said.

I would like to ask a question, when Jesus was tempted three times the Devil said i will depart for a season, meaning i will be back again to tempt you where was it?
Another question did he get tempted?
And the last thing i would say is Is the son of man the same as son of God or was Jesus meaning two time lines or two people?
Jesus Christ is son of God peter said Jesus said blessed are you peter because it was not flesh and bone that reveled this but my father in heaven,does that mean peter was also conversing with God and as Jesus said do not tell the right what the left is doing and vice versa What then was Gods purpose?

Many many times he railed against hard hearts and institutionalized attitudes of moral superiority. Sound familiar?

All too much so. It is this "moral superiority" that keeps me from wanting to spend too much time with a lot of people who claim to be good Christians.

I'm finding this discussion very stimulating as most of the interpretations of Biblical stories that I've heard in my lifetime are from those who claim "moral superiority." Hearing interpretations from more open-minded people is greatly refreshing!

Onto Tom Joad's comments:

I also think the Bible is equivalent to a first grade primer, like the ones they used in the 1800's. A primer for what, you may ask? I say it teaches the beginnings of an advanced moral and ethical code, and leaves us to work on it and fill in the blanks.

A very interesting thought, and I like the way you put it. I tend to agree that religious teachings are a moral primer to get us on the right road. As for Buddha, he said a lot of interesting things. If you haven't already, you may be interested in reading The Celestine Prophecy. Part of its premise is that Jesus, Buddha, and Mohammed were all humans who achieved a higher level of enlightenment and were trying to teach us the way to find our own enlightenment.

Dude, I tried to watch that movie, and it was so white, it HURT! In all seriousness, the movie (don't know about the book) was propagandistic, and I turned it off after 15 minutes. Reminiscent of a Mormon recruiting tool.

I do not disparage either of these two religions, by the way, but I do not like some of the recruiting tools they use.

Oh, the movie stunk. If you hadn't read the book, you'd get nothing from the movie. I hated the movie but loved the book. Maybe you can borrow it from the library--that way if you hate it within the first chapter, you can just return it and not lose much time and no money. :)

Thanks. Will look into it.