Testing Obama :: Iranian Leader Demands U.S. Apology

Yep, this nutcase is being obstructionist and he's doing it so they won't have to actually deal with their own BS on a televised basis.

I'll bet the Iranian citizens are screaming mad right now.

Karl-
You should never interrupt your opponent while he is making a mistake.

Absolutely perfect...perfect.

the iranian should be screaming made.. they werre moderate.. they wre western.. western music was playing in the streets.. kids got aemrican hair cuts.. girls went uncovered.. people danced and played music.. all they really wanted was to normalise realations with the US.. they even offered us a grand bargin.. reconise isreal.. no money for hamas.. complete stop of the nuke program all for us to say we wont actively try to change their regime again.. like we did in 1953 when the cia installed the shah into power.
and th3en heck of a job bushie gets on tv and calls them the axis of evil and it has been downhill ever since.
They elected nutjob, just like when we electe goprs, their economy went to hell.. draconain laws were imposed.. no more western hair cuts.. no more western music, movies etc.. joy it is iranian republicains.

the Irianian peopel reached out to us and we spat in their face.
and got them to elect an iranian Bush.
I'd be upset as well.

The ploys of diplomacy are very tricky, and I surely cannot predict the future. I can however, read about the past, and I am shocked that I missed the Mohammad Mossadegh/Operation Ajax information!

I was a child when it happened in 1953, and otherwise occupied when it leaked in the 70's, but how did I miss it when it was fully revealed after 2000!

I don't move in the circles to know if Iran is making nuclear weapons or not, but I wonder when we pursue nuclear for energy we will be accused of increasing our weapons arsenal?

We think we know so much..........

the Irianian peopel reached out to us and we spat in their face.
and got them to elect an iranian Bush.
I'd be upset as well.

You are ignorant. The "Iranian Bush" as you put it, does not run the country.

Let the first brouhaha come from his own side. If we let it, I think it will... Then we can proceed to isolate his rantings from the dialogue that we may then induce with other more level-headed Iranian leaders.

Booyah Karl. We need to take whatever steps necessary to turn Iran into a global pariah as opposed to middle east power. Mr. Ahmadancedancerevolutionejad will do a fine job of--"presiding over"-- those running his country into the ground on their own terms and eventually cooler heads should prevail.

LonoKemp,

We need to take whatever steps necessary to turn Iran into a global pariah as opposed to middle east power

I understand what your goal is. As for me, I am too much of a humanitarian to turn any country into a global pariah. That puts us in different camps. I would like to see Mr. Ahmadinejad and others who think like him (you remind me of him somehow) to be removed from the discussion while willing men and women look for peace.

I am too much of a humanitarian to turn any country into a global pariah. I would like to see Mr. Ahmadinejad and others who think like him (you remind me of him somehow)

Do us a favor and can the self-righteousness. Maybe the hyperbole was a bit much for you to stomach? I'm sorry if I offended your delicate sensibilities, but all I'm saying is increased irrelevancy of Mr. A is better for the US in the long term. Tehran has long been known as a cosmopolitan city with a fairly well educated populace. But then you have mouthpieces like ahmedinejad taunting other countries, spouting nonsense (there are no gays in Iran etc..) and relying on nationalism a la bush for his support as opposed to sound policy and practice.

The hubris an "extremist" like him will eventually serve to chop his own legs out and we won't have a need for speculating discussions about what Iran will do with a nuclear weapon because the "extremist" will no longer be in power when their own citizens doesn't take them seriously. Next time I'll do you a favor and refrain from voicing my agreement.

It isn't a politic reply to Obama's gesture. He's saying, Yeah, yeah, shut up and do something to a man that is holding out his hand. Obama is saying let's do it together, without preconditions...and Ahmadinejad is saying well FIRST apologize.

Obama said--no preconditions.

Ahmadinejad said-- he wants preconditions (an apology).

But with his ability to eliminate the "competition" for the position, it is difficult to not re-elect this "idiot"

"I've always heard that Iranians think he's kind of an idiot. "

I've been there and know a lot of Iranians, they don't think he's an idiot, they think he's a F*cking idiot!

Remember, he was in third during the last elections, until Bush dissed the Iranian democratic system. Imanutjob is a perfect example of what happens when you have a president unable to understand the consequences of his words.

I agree.. FIRST WE DO OWE THE IRANIAN PEOPLE AN APPOLOGY.
@!$%# their gov.. but we do owe the people of iran that didnt have @!$%# to do with anything an appology.
But it would help amadinjad too much right now.. especailly before an election..and it would be unfair tot he iran in people to influecne this election as well.

JCAtom,

I've always heard that Iranians think he's kind of an idiot.

Keep that in mind but don't count on it, it would be too easy.
But if true, Obama's comments AND Ahmadinejad's are quite helpful right now.

It helps to browse the net and look at foreign newspapers. You would swear that you are reading news from another planet sometimes... And so would they reading yours.

Y se necessita de hablar muchas linguas. Il nous sert bien, aussi, de parler plusieurs langues.

I think you are right. There will always be some other condition with these guys. The olive branch has been offered and that is enough.

really ming? waht about the grand bargin
funny they can say"there will always be some condition with americans, they never want peace"
Rememerb they got upset that BP wasnt giving them a fair price on oil concidering what gas was selling for.
THE ELECTED PRESIDENT OF IRAN, decided to nationalise their resources.
SO WE AMERICANS sent in the CIA and allong with the shah OVERTHREW THE DEMOCRACTICALLY ELECTED GOV OF IRAN.
Midn you this is before hamas, hezbollah or any crimes against humantiy by iran.
WE overthrew a deomocractic country and put in a brutal dictator that killed his own people.

and you want to say "there is alwasy some other condition with these guys"
it';s like beating your kids all their lives and then wondering why they have mental problems in adulthood.
you do get why we want iraq and iran? why the british said almost 100 years ago.. control the middle east, control the world?

what is right inbetween iran and iraq?
when it the last time we talked about teh sudan? zimbagwai?
Even the blind can see what is going on.. and the iranians have historical and lucid reasons to fear us.
We have no such histroy with them.. hostage crisis.. w/e we took over theri country and were basically occupiers so we could siphon off the countries wealth.

of course Iran and the entire middle East has rason to fear us but as I said an olive leaf has been extended. maybe both sides need to apologize and start anew. The fact that obama wants to begin dialogue is in itself a promising thing. Nothing can be accomplised without conversation. It is very apparent that military action failed to work.

While you are ranting and waving your arms in the air you may want to look at home about terrorist support, we do it more than any other nation.

To play devils advocate: Maybe if we didn;t support a dictator for a few decades, the Islamic Revolution never would have happened?

Maybe if we didn;t support a dictator for a few decades, the Islamic Revolution never would have happened?

There are plenty of Iranians who do not wish to be subject to the religious rules of the Ayatollahs, who are the real dictators in Iranian society, and plenty who won't have it any other way. We were trying to tip the scales, but ultimately they need to have their own revolution.

GRAND BARGIN.. google it
maybe you wont sound so much like a GOPr

September 30th, 1937... The Munich Agreement, the "grand bargain" of it's time is signed. We all know what came next. Google that.

The left, being inherently weak, cannot understand the virtues of strength. Let's hope America and Israel survive 4 years of Obama and a Democratic congress without a major disaster in foreign affairs.

"The left, being inherently weak, cannot understand the virtues of strength"

Only in your simplistic mind.... what we understand is strength vs. false bravado...something the right shows plenty of.

It will actually ENCOURAGE the fringe nuts to target US interests.

Giving us a perfect excuse for unilateral action.

THE right inherently retarded, never seem to understand when they make the world less safe they make us less safe.
the right loves to tell peopoel to bring it on when they got guns at the heads of our boys.. yeah awesome rightie.,

Can we LEARN from history, please?

Think folks...why did Sadam throw the inspectors out, when he had complied?

It is a CULTURAL difference. Men in these cultures are expected to employ "false bravado". It is a way of saving face...

If Obama kowtows...We will be seen as a target...

Jesus would be weak, then, too, since he believed in turning the other cheek and loving the enemy. He'd apologize to Iran in a heartbeat...

but Jesus knew he could come back...so he could turn the other cheek without fear of it getting shot off.

like talking about a superhero in a comic book story...

I sincerely hope - not. Iran is not even that strong so we should continue play games with them. It just very important not to let them put their hands on A-bomb. Because, if this ever happens - we all are in big sh*t.

Obama made the gesture knowing what the response would be. He'll have them (the Iranian Radicals) right where he wants them by the time they're face to face, if they're still around. He'll take em down without firing a shot or getting thousands of Americans killed a la B&C.

Just like all the other agreements between other Pres. and Iran and other Arab Nations, have lead to peace in the world and they, in good faith, have stopped funding terror.

I believe you.

Carter was the best in this situation, don't you agree.

iran has never attacked anyone.
we have overthrown iran and have supproted saddam attcaking iran.
yeah their is hamas and hezbollah
but we got the contra, the mek and others.
we tried to start a civil war in palistine.
get off your high horse and you might find otu that horse wasnt so @!$%#ing high after all.. just the jockey was.

The agreement will be between the Iranian people and the new gov't with the US acting as broker at the distress of our buddy Putin.

Carter was best in no situation.

joulesbeef;

They don't have to. Just funnel money and bombs, and martyrs, and families who lost members and innocent people killed (man, shouldn't have said that!! that will get the libs going on who is at fault.) Its all our fault. Forgot that mantra.

Mike;

Sarcasm on Carter, Don't ya know!! (day dreaming don't ya know!)

Sarcasm much appreciated. My first home loan was 14 1/2 percent and I got a good deal.

Mike;

REALLY!!! ????????

Must have been before I could get a loan and I'm not young.

iran has never attacked anyone.
we have overthrown iran and have supproted saddam attcaking iran.
yeah their is hamas and hezbollah
but we got the contra, the mek and others.
we tried to start a civil war in palistine.

Oh I spit water on my keyboard on this one....JB you justify a government that supports terror, the elimination of Israel, and deigns the Holocaust with "Iran Contra"?

You do realize that little war Saddam had with Iran was the only thing that kept Iran in Check with out us sending troops to the region? right?

fitty-seven. Carter had good intentions but couldn't get out of his own way. Being a peanut farmer you would have thought he would be familiar with the old farmers saying "good intentions don't mean a thing if the job don't get done". Thought about taking a last swipe at 43 but its to the point of beating a dead horse to death.

Too much of that on the vine already.

Mike;

50 but whose counting.

Did sit in my dads car when the gas lines were huge. Rustle, Rustle Rustle, DAD!!!

Its that work hard effort that's gone by the side of the road.

Good intentions agreed, but results, dismal.

dewolfkeeper;

Bucket on floor helps on those comments posted. Mine got to full and had to empty.

Where are people getting such confidence in Obama's political skills? This cult of personality is dangerous. Obama was a second rate lawyer, an attorney for ACORN, a corrupt activist organization, a community organizer who had zero practical effect in improving education in Chicago, a back bench Illinois legislator and a one term US senator who spent most of his single term running for President. He is the least qualified president we've had in the 20th century.

Will be fun, MAYBE NOT, to watch. Still want V.P. Biden to speak again. LOL!!

This cult of personality is dangerous.

The only dangerous thing around here is how uninformed some can be.

A "second rate" lawyer - from Harvard. Uh-Huh.

Never worked directly for ACORN, and who says they are corrupt?

His community organizing work wasn't about education, it was about jobs.

As far as least qualified, there are Presidents with even shorter and less stellar resumes, and Bush was definitely FAR less qualified than Obama. That is evident just from comparing Bush's terms to the first week of Obama's.

Acorn - all news media, by their own quotes, showed they were currupt.

Bush, Bush, Bush. Its done, its over and now its Pres. Obama.

What stellar thing can Pres. Obama show on his resume', being from Illinois.

Pres. Obama show on his resume', being from Illinois.

You mean besides President of Harvard Law Review, United States Senator, and President of the United States?

Yeah, what a poor resume.

Andre - you beat me to it...

and Bush had Yale and the Gov of Texas and everybody said he was a moron so.....

and Bush had Yale

I don't think Obama's father's connections in Kenya were too instrumental in placing him in an Ivy league school. There's no real "old boys" network for people who grew up in the middle class or as a minority.

Ever heard of Affirmative Action? Our Kenyan-American is the first Affirmative Action president.

Ever heard of Affirmative Action

yes I have, and I'm going to go out on a limb by assuming that you have little idea as to how it works.

You know, Hoover was probably the most overqualified president we ever had...and Teddy, Lincoln, and Regan all had around the same experiance than Obama did...

My point is, in the end, ability counts. Experiance is simply a way of gauging ones ability.

I agree with your statement about Lincoln, but America in 1865 is a very different place than America in 2009. And, while Lincoln is rightly credited with saving the union, his handline of the Union Army was a fiasco. If you want a perspective different than the one you get in high school textbooks, read Churchill's writings on the Civil War. Lincoln made extremely poor choices in selecting Generals, and allowed petty politics guide him in important decisions.

But in no way does Obama have the experience Reagan and TR had. Reagan was an experienced man in his 60s when he was elected. He had served for years as President of the Screen Actors Guild. He was a two term Governor of California. He was a much wiser and more determined man than Obama. TR was Secretary of the Navy, Governor of NY and Vice President. He served as a military commander in the Spanish American war. He had vastly more experience than Obama in every area of importance.

Some fail to understand the situation in Iran, and you prove how clueless some are.

The majority of the Iranian people are very pro-american (despite what you want to believe). Iran has also isolated itself from the rest of the muslim world. Any for of posturing by the US strenghtens Imanutjobs position, which is why Obama took the tone he did.

He offered an olive branch without conditions, and Imanutjob wants conditions added on. Now Imanutjob becomes the villin, as he is the one trying to dictate terms. Throw in the state of the Iranian economy (budget was based on $80 a barrel), simply keep squeezing him ever so slowly, and which him removed from power without any US intervention.

In short: its called tact, something republicans don't have much of...

gamerk2;

Isn't that what Pres. Bush was trying to do with not much help and now you are looking for Pres. Obama to do the same thing but now your going to support it because its Pres. Obama?

To squeeze as you say, takes American Intervention.

HMM iran had western moderate leaders.. offered us the grandbargin.. turned in tons of alquada(actually at the start of the war.. they turned in more terrorist to us than any other country)
they hold a yearly candle light vigil for 9/11 victims.

GOP IDEA: Call them the axis of evil. Results. peopel elect a non moderate GOP style draconian gov, no grand bargin, no more turning in al quada and letting the shiek out of the country,that we had asked them not to, so he could fight in iran.
the DEM IDEA:lets check out this grand bargin thing

\
LOLOL mhammer.. do you think not talking to them at all and calling them names helped?

Nope, you don't need direct intervention to squeeze. Considering the state of Irans economy, and the fact the majority of the middle east is against Iran to begin with, the LAST thing you want is direct intervention, as you risk having the people of Iran, and the islamic world, rally to Iran's cause if the US pushs too hard.

Imanutjob get elected because Bush opened has mouth at a really bad time, and Iran gained power due to the removal of Saddam, who worked as a buffer against Iran. Iran, in turn, keeps Egypt and Saudi Arabia in check. As long as you don't rally the entire region against us, you can use the other countries against Iran, while remaining on the sidelines.

gamerk2;

If you don't have direct intervention in squeezing bank accounts, imports exports etc.. from and for Iran, how do you do it?

Maybe we could get a surrogate to do it on our behalf, and keep their identity a national secret.

As soon as this starts, the entire world will know its us, as we would again, need the support of other countries for this squeeze to happen. If the other countries still deal with Iran, there is no squeeze.

how programmed you are.
you do knwo the iranian peopel had nothign to do with hezbollah or hamas?
you do knwo the iran ina people love us and were oon of the most western nations in the middle east besides isreal?
you do know the us is directly responcible for hundreds of thousands of iranian deaths?

Joules Beef-

when you refuse to spell and organize your words and sentences according to ordinary English grammar, why should anyone try and communicate with you?

Early last year you wrote normal, understandable, readable posts. What happened to you?

Mad Cow is my guess John but I'm spitballing here.

TO all the NV that think the US can do know wrong.. that scrreaming bring it on when tterrorist got guns pointed at our boys.. that think it's a good idea to tell an ally in the war on terror that he is evil while he is holding a radical cleric away fromt hew war for you is a good idea.. please stop havign good ideas gop.. go back to sipping you tea at teh country club bragging about how you avoided work or respociblity all your lives.

foolsbeef, ... might be best to read over the post before leaving us to interpret gibberish. I'm pretty sure the US does know wrong, although you probably meant do no wrong. Ill leave the rest for someone else to clean-up and interpret.

go back to sipping you tea at teh country club bragging about how you avoided work or respociblity all your lives.

LMAO... was that directed at me?

BUT WE ARE RESPOMCIBLE FOR OUR OWN ACTIONS.

Are we responsible for some bad things that have happened, yes. Are we required to apologize for them? Short answer, NO. Long answer, HELL NO! And before you jump on this... I fully admit the gall (Gaul is an ancient region of western Europe that included what is now northern Italy and France and Belgium and part of Germany and the Netherlands), so you have no reason to point it out again.

the iranina peopel deserve better than amadinajd and we practically instaled him into power when we called iran th axis of evil.

Agreed, they do deserve better, but we are not responsible for his election.

WE'd do the same thing.. someoen threatened us.. we get the nuttiest war monger we can for president.

Have you not seen the military parades in Tehran with "Death to America" painted on the bombs and masked gunmen shouting Death to America at the top of their lungs and their religious leaders saying Death to America is "God's Will"? We are constantly under threat. Yet we elected Obama... does he fit your description?

And How many muslims have you wanted to kill for nothing other than their religion?

And How many muslims have you wanted to kill for nothing other than their religion?

None. Was that a serious question?

Now if their interpretation of Islam is that anyone who does not accept Islam should be put to death... I think that is a problem that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later and I would argue that it is pointless to use diplomacy or dialogue to counter such beliefs.

Again, I must point out Imanutjob was loosing badly prior to Iran being put in the "Axis of Evil". Its things like this which play to the radical wing, and increases their power. By actually attempting diplomacy, you do the opposite, and take power away from the radical wing.

Let Imanutjob rig the elections, and get the people in his own country against him. Do not directly intervene though, as it will cause more hate and more terrorists down the line.

I believe he may be dyslexic...just take an extra moment or two and you will see he makes a lot of sense and is a very intelligent Newsviner.

quite possibly colloquially apoplectic

"Because if we can end WWII with 1 bomb.......we most certainly can and will end you with half that." - good point!

Then the world supply of oil is radiactive for the next thousand years.

Nope, don't see any issues with that plan. :P

wasn't it 2 bombs?

This is a perfect example of American hypocrisy. We try to sweet talk the world and proclaim how we love freedom, liberty, and democracy, yet look at our actions.

Just because someone is elected, doesn't mean we have to like them or support them... that is the American way. We don't even like and support or own elected leaders half of the time. Hitler was elected and Britain and France tried to work with him and look at the result. Sould we have invited him over for tea as well? Ahmadinejad is the elected leader of Iran. So what? Now we have to do what he says because he was elected? Ridiculous!

Just because someone is elected, doesn't mean we have to like them or support them... that is the American way.

Hitler was elected and Britain and France tried to work with him and look at the result.

Now we have to do what he says because he was elected? Ridiculous!

Oh, so it means we have to overthrow them? Is that the American way?

You are comparing elected people to Hitler? Should we de-legitimize elections because of Hitler? Hitler would be your biggest fan!

Who said we had to do what they said?

Oh, so it means we have to overthrow them? Is that the American way?

Promoting regime change in countries that oppose or threaten us is indeed the American way, at least in the post-isolationist period of American history.

Should we de-legitimize elections because of Hitler?

No. We should realize that not all elected leaders are our friends and many can not be made into our friends no matter what we do. We must also realize that many Iranians do not support the current leadership and it is in our best interest to help those Iranians move forward to something else.

Who said we had to do what they said?

I thought you were implying that we should apologize for what you deemed a "perfect example of American hypocrisy." Sorry if I read too much into that statement.

garyray - you completely twisted the entire discussion. Just because Mr. Ahmad-in-the-butt was elected, does not mean he automatically got our respect or trust. The ideology that he is supporting does not agree with American moral values, like freedom, equality, tolerance. And don't tell me that we are not free enough, or equal enough or tolerant enough. We, as human society, are not perfect. But violations of human rights in USA are not rules, but rather exceptions. In Iran - majority of citizens don't enjoy 1/10 of our freedoms. The fact that we have some problems does not make our society equal to Iranian. We don't have to overthrow their government, but we have to build our policy considering our differences. Obama extended a hand toward Iran. Ahmad-in-somebutt started to make stupid requests to show USA who's the boss, for whatever reasons. USA can live without Iran. Iran, on the other hand, is pretty isolated, its economy deteriorates, life of the ordinary Iranian is not that rosy. Who will gain more of the friendly relationship?

Naftel:

Promoting regime change in countries that oppose or threaten us is indeed the American way, at least in the post-isolationist period of American history.

Where is the evidence that the democratically elected government we over thru in 1953 was a threat? We did it to get the oil, and Iran resented it, just like Americans would resent it if another country did it to us. No, it is not the American way, it is the way of the coward who has lost the battle of ideas and must turn to violence.

No. We should realize that not all elected leaders are our friends and many can not be made into our friends no matter what we do. We must also realize that many Iranians do not support the current leadership and it is in our best interest to help those Iranians move forward to something else.

Our leaders, diplomats and principles say that countries have the right to self determination. Behaving otherwise is another example of our hypocrisy. America should not expect countries to give up their resources (oil) to earn our friendship.

ANNA-NYC:

How many “Americans” resort to denial? How many “Americans” resort to historical revisionism? How many “Americans” will hide behind the flag and the bible to claim that America is morally perfect?

Well, there's one.

Life here is not "rosy" either. Seen the news lately?

No, it is not the American way, it is the way of the coward who has lost the battle of ideas and must turn to violence.

I do not believe America has lost the war of Ideas to Iran. I am sorry you view this country so negatively. If you are a US citizen, I hope you can find a country to live in that more suits your ideals. If you are not, I understand you perspective.

garyray - first of all, I don't understand whose words you quoted. It's certainly not mine. Secondly, as I stated in my post, we are not perfect. And if you think that life is not "rosy" here, then what should life look like for the rest of the world? America is in much better position comparing to most of other nations, and especially to such poor and oppressed nation as Iran. Check at least their GDP, and I don't even mention their law code. It goes directly to 7 century CE. I don't remember any one to be put to death by stoning for adultery lately.

Heres the issue: we overthrew a democraticly elected government in the 50's because they supported communism as an economic policy. We put a dictator (think Saddam) in its place, as he was pro-American. This caused a readicalisation of the Iranian people, who rose up and overthew him, and an Islamic Fundamentalist regime was created in its place.

The hypocracy, is how the US can claim to bring freedom to the middle east, when it only overthrows the governments that are not pro-american?

This is directly opposite of what I remember in history class. I thought that radicalists came in and performed a (howeveryouspell) cudetah. Aren't the Iranians for the most part nice people? With a wonderful history and culture? Aren't a few in Iran forcing the many(somewhat like in America) to hate America?Using mis-information?

Naftel,

I am sorry you view this country so negatively. If you are a US citizen, I hope you can find a country to live in that more suits your ideals.

They are not my ideals. They are the ideals that our nation proclaims. Why won't our nation live up to its own ideals?

wizeguy - do we have to wait for so long? Should've taken your chance when he was here last time - we would have one problem less now!

The last time he was coming to NY I recommended losing his luggage, making him take a cab from the airport and having the driver drop him off in Harlem. Then I thought better of it and think the driver should drop him in Crown Hts. He can experience the real world there.

ps: i don't live in NY anymore but I still know some folks in Queens might like to meet him.

:)