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Member Since: 4/2008Last Seen: 11/22/2009

LHC - Working From the Future to Thwart the Present

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...the troubled collider is being sabotaged by its own future. A pair of otherwise distinguished physicists have suggested that the hypothesized Higgs boson, which physicists hope to produce with the collider, might be so abhorrent to nature that its creation would ripple backward through time and stop the collider before it could make one, like a time traveler who goes back in time to kill his grandfather.



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{"commentId":10099529,"authorDomain":"jcatom"}

The equations work just as well, Dr. Nielsen and others point out, if the boundary conditions specify a condition in the future (the apple on your head) instead of in the past, as long as the fundamental laws of physics are reversible, which most physicists believe they are.

“For those of us who believe in physics,” Einstein once wrote to a friend, “this separation between past, present and future is only an illusion.”

{"commentId":10099529,"threadId":"702341","contentId":"3386521","authorDomain":"jcatom"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#1 - Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:40 PM EDT
{"commentId":10099558,"authorDomain":"jcatom"}

This is a few days old, thought I'd see it here on the Vine by now...but couldn't find it so have at it. Kinda fun little idea.

{"commentId":10099558,"threadId":"702341","contentId":"3386521","authorDomain":"jcatom"}
  • 1 vote
#1.1 - Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:41 PM EDT
{"commentId":10103636,"authorDomain":"basseq"}
like a time traveler who goes back in time to kill his grandfather.

Which is a paradox, by the way. You can't kill your grandfather because it would mean you wouldn't exist, a pre-req for murder.

Interesting alternate angle though: if having a child meant that your descendant would come back through time and kill you (paradox), then you should be unable to start the chain of events that would inextricably lead to that paradox (e.g., having a child). This falls apart for the murdered-grandfather scenario, what with free will and all, but might apply in black and white cases such as particle creation.1

1. If the existence of a particle would negate its own existence, then you could never create the particle in the first place, no matter how you tried. The creation is the paradox.

Or, more likely, the LHC is a complicated piece of machinery and is subject to mechanical failure.

{"commentId":10103636,"threadId":"702341","contentId":"3386521","authorDomain":"basseq"}
  • 2 votes
#1.2 - Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:29 PM EDT
{"commentId":10120601,"authorDomain":"alwaypwns"}

Actually, if you add in a fifth dimension the grandfather paradox ceases to be paradox. A fifth dimension would allow for multiple different events to occur at the same x,y,z,time coordinate.

3128,546,456,4598 = 3128,546,456,4598
UNLESS you add in a fifth coordinate
3128,546,456,4598,1 is not = 3128,546,456,4598,2

For time travel to be possible, it would require the existance of a fifth dimension to distinguish between the alternate timelines; which may or may not exist.

That is not to say I believe any of the crap being invoked by these physicists. Especially since the failures are macroscopic, not microscopic. A mechanical failure is far from being an act of god as is being claimed in the article. If something like what he describes were to happen, it would likely be something small and unnoticeable to us.

{"commentId":10120601,"threadId":"702341","contentId":"3386521","authorDomain":"alwaypwns"}
  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:24 PM EDT
{"commentId":10121359,"authorDomain":"nkycarbon"}

To go "back in time" without going backwards in time requires that you leave the regular timeline and reenter it. So the first paradox is existing (in the present) and then suddenly not existing. The second paradox is not existing (in the past) and then suddenly existing. After that you can kill your grandfather or whatever since your not really connected to that reality that existed before the first paradox.

As far as the events on the LHC, the went with cheap magnets so save on cost. Combine that with being a extremely complex one of a kind piece of equipment and it almost guaranteed to be constant trouble. They'll get it going and have more set backs. Give it another decade.

{"commentId":10121359,"threadId":"702341","contentId":"3386521","authorDomain":"nkycarbon"}
  • 2 votes
#1.4 - Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:52 PM EDT
{"commentId":10122867,"authorDomain":"basseq"}
Actually, if you add in a fifth dimension the grandfather paradox ceases to be paradox.

Very true. I wrote off the multiple dimension theory because it would mean that on some Earth in another dimension, the LHC is working just fine. Which negates the point in the first place.

{"commentId":10122867,"threadId":"702341","contentId":"3386521","authorDomain":"basseq"}
  • 2 votes
#1.5 - Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:51 PM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":10100494,"authorDomain":"efucci"}

Oh, I love this concept... betcha someone will make a movie out of it...

{"commentId":10100494,"threadId":"702341","contentId":"3386521","authorDomain":"efucci"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:26 PM EDT
{"commentId":10100761,"authorDomain":"alacount"}

cool article, thanks jc

{"commentId":10100761,"threadId":"702341","contentId":"3386521","authorDomain":"alacount"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#3 - Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:39 PM EDT
{"commentId":10102216,"authorDomain":"jcatom"}

np :-D

{"commentId":10102216,"threadId":"702341","contentId":"3386521","authorDomain":"jcatom"}
  • 1 vote
#3.1 - Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:35 PM EDT
Reply
{"commentId":10102211,"authorDomain":"nkycarbon"}
This malign influence from the future, they argue, could explain why the United States Superconducting Supercollider, also designed to find the Higgs, was canceled in 1993 after billions of dollars had already been spent, an event so unlikely that Dr. Nielsen calls it an “anti-miracle.”

I have a t-shirt somewhere from the project I got as a kid.

{"commentId":10102211,"threadId":"702341","contentId":"3386521","authorDomain":"nkycarbon"}
  • 2 votes
Reply#4 - Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:35 PM EDT
{"commentId":10113968,"authorDomain":"hotlink"}

This might explain Obamas Nobel.

{"commentId":10113968,"threadId":"702341","contentId":"3386521","authorDomain":"hotlink"}
  • 1 vote
Reply#5 - Fri Oct 16, 2009 3:15 AM EDT
{"commentId":10118203,"authorDomain":"basseq"}
{"commentId":10118203,"threadId":"702341","contentId":"3386521","authorDomain":"basseq"}
  • 2 votes
#5.1 - Fri Oct 16, 2009 10:52 AM EDT
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