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16 Votes
36 Comments
3 Clergymen of Different Faiths Attempt to Bridge Interfaith Gap
News Type: Event — Seeded on Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:18 AM EST
Article Source: The New York Timesadvertisement
The three say they became close not by avoiding or glossing over their conflicts, but by running straight at them. They put everything on the table: the verses they found offensive in one another's holy books, anti-Semitism, violence in the name of religion, claims by each faith to have the exclusive hold on truth, and, of course, Israel.
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{"commentId":10866415,"authorDomain":"jcatom"}
the three clergymen...stood up one by one and declared what they most valued as the core teachings of their tradition. The minister said “unconditional love.” The sheik said “compassion.” And the rabbi said “oneness.”
The room then grew quiet as each stood and recited what he regarded as the “untruths” in his own faith. The minister said that one “untruth” for him was that “Christianity is the only way to God.” The rabbi said for him it was the notion of Jews as “the chosen people.” And the sheik said for him it was the “sword verses” in the Koran, like “kill the unbeliever.”
{"commentId":10866415,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"jcatom"}
- 11 votes
#1 - Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:19 AM EST{"commentId":10866641,"authorDomain":"aRTieA"}
It is not these clergyment that we need to worry about. It is the radicals within their religion that hold on to old beliefs and kill in the name of their 'god."
{"commentId":10866641,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"aRTieA"}
- 9 votes
{"commentId":10866812,"authorDomain":"jgonad"}
and dont forget those going around who support them with their posts, seeds and actions, spreading lies and rumors about the others they dont agree with.
{"commentId":10866812,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"jgonad"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":10866837,"authorDomain":"immaginedigitalimag"}
In the absence of all religions (faiths), there would be no need to "bridge the gaps" created by religion in the first place.
If you urinate intentionally on my carpet, then decide to clean it up, are you an altruist, or, someone who will piss on my carpet again-and-again then periodically tell me from your pisser-pulpit, "it's wrong to piss on other people's carpets?"
Just asking.
A. Mac
{"commentId":10866837,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"immaginedigitalimag"}
- 8 votes
{"commentId":10866963,"authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
Perhaps by these interfaith efforst, the radicals will become an endangered species.
I like the minister's response about the "untruth" in his religion. I've heard a few people in my church refer to the "false religions". I haven't quite grasped yet how one person can declare an entire religion to be not a religion at all. I can't help imagining big cattle pens in Heaven...one for Baptists, one for Protestants, one for Catholics. It tends to take on a cartoon quality and get pretty silly-looking.
{"commentId":10866963,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":10867019,"authorDomain":"jcatom"}
I think that the people who think that religion is bad are often missing the point. It's the people who mess up religion.
{"commentId":10867019,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"jcatom"}
- 9 votes
{"commentId":10867175,"authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
Excellent point JC. On another seed a viner stated several times that Christianity is responsible for much murder and persecution. He doesn't understand my stance that man is responsible for those things, and it is by no means exclusive to any one religion, culture, country, etc. It is a direct reflection on man imo - not religion.
{"commentId":10867175,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":10867231,"authorDomain":"greenarcher170"}
It is a direct reflection on man imo - not religion.
I wouldn't go that far. It is a reflection of both.
Just read the written word in the various religious texts...war, stoning, jihad, etc.
{"commentId":10867231,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"greenarcher170"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":10867538,"authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
Many written in a time when such things were common. I suppose it would give a "banner" for them to rally under. Other things such as Jihad, execution of gays, taken out of context to be used as justification for man's actions. We are responsible for our own actions and decisions.
{"commentId":10867538,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10867755,"authorDomain":"jcatom"}
And it is the people of the religions that have kept some of the texts stagnant and have dictated what is important in each.
The quote from the article above in which each man says what is wrong, or at least what is not to be taken at face value in each text is illuminating, not very common, and possibly even dangerous for themselves in regards to fundamentalist certitude.
The problem with the fundamentalists is that they often don't recognize that they are merely listening and adhering to a conviction instilled in them by other humans.
The Catholic Church decided which books would be in the Christian Bible. They must have felt very confident in their judgment...in fact they must have thought that they were speaking for God with their decisions...something that is spoken against vehemently by Jesus in some of the very texts that they chose.
{"commentId":10867755,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"jcatom"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":10868182,"authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
JC, just curious but do you know of a text available in english which includes books left out? Or even a text of the books left out.
{"commentId":10868182,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10868357,"authorDomain":"augurwell"}
Justme, some folks call them, in a group, the Gnostic Gospels. Try this site, for starters.
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html
(*pinkgrins*!)
{"commentId":10868357,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"augurwell"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10868480,"authorDomain":"jcatom"}
Thnx, Augur Well. I've read passages from, papers about, and seen documentaries on these texts. There are many of them and I think they do not all originate from one group or source, but I don't know of a comprehensive list or compilation of the texts themselves...there probably is one, I just don't know.
{"commentId":10868480,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"jcatom"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10868780,"authorDomain":"augurwell"}
Me 'neither, JC! They do seem to be "all over the map" at times.
{"commentId":10868780,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"augurwell"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10871654,"authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
Thanks Auger! :) JC has mentioned it before and of course I'm dying of curiosity to get a look at what was cut. Kind of along the lines of "banned" books....you just have to get your paws on a copy lol.
{"commentId":10871654,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10898057,"authorDomain":"krishna109"}
I think that the people who think that religion is bad are often missing the point. It's the people who mess up religion.
Exactly.
Two people of the same religion can read the same holy book-- one walks away feeling the need to live a peaceful existence-- the other decides it means that he must commit acts of violence.
I've often seen people on NV say that if religion were eliminated, there would be peace on earth-- a perfect world. But that's nonsense-- if religion were eliminated, mankind would create other beleif ssytems-- and distort their interpretation.
Blaming religion is merely a way for people to avoid taking respsonsibility for their actions.
{"commentId":10898057,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"krishna109"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":10866512,"authorDomain":"greenarcher170"}
Here is a crazy idea from an atheist.
Lets combine all three books after editing out all the offensive, hate mongering BS and see what we get.
{"commentId":10866512,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"greenarcher170"}
- 3 votes
#2 - Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:24 AM EST{"commentId":10866698,"authorDomain":"augurwell"}
One possible answer, try Tibetan Buddhism.
Just a thought.
{"commentId":10866698,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"augurwell"}
- 5 votes
{"commentId":10868241,"authorDomain":"skylark246"}
It is a direct reflection on man imo - not religion.
But man is responsible for all religions in the first place. Man invented god and religion so you can't separate the two. Man can uninvent religion and learn to live in peace on this shrinking planet where we all depend on each other for its survival.
{"commentId":10868241,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"skylark246"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10868749,"authorDomain":"schmittyj"}
Man invented god and religion so you can't separate the two.
Yeah... good luck getting anyone of any faith to accept that axiom to begin a conversation...
(And wouldn't it be "you can't separate the three?")
{"commentId":10868749,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"schmittyj"}
- 6 votes
{"commentId":10869018,"authorDomain":"templeboy"}
This was an excellent first step. This needs more public exposure. Violence in the name of religion has taken center stage in the world.
Give these people the mic, and let 'em rip. Every day if necessary.
{"commentId":10869018,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"templeboy"}
- 7 votes
{"commentId":10869177,"authorDomain":"skylark246"}
Yeah... good luck getting anyone of any faith to accept that axiom to begin a conversation...
(And wouldn't it be "you can't separate the three?")
Three is fine with me. I was just equating god and religion. And, yes, I know I am just spitting in the wind but I have to keep trying for the sake of the planet and all of us.
{"commentId":10869177,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"skylark246"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10871748,"authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
I just equate religion as an excuse as being along the same lines of blaming video games for teen violence.
Three is fine with me. I was just equating god and religion. And, yes, I know I am just spitting in the wind but I have to keep trying for the sake of the planet and all of us.
Lol....I would say these men are proof that it is entirely possible to have both religion and peace. But I admit I am an optimist.
{"commentId":10871748,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10873162,"authorDomain":"andrewdkrauss"}
They all identify a teaching they see as wrong from their religious texts which represent an ultimate authority. In doing so they've just shown that their text isn't an ultimate authority and is therefore as open to question and debate as any other work would be. Without the divine authority of God to hide behind all religious texts are pretty abhorrent when examined in the light of day and the authority of a priest, imam, or rabbi is reduced to that of a glorified philosophy student.
{"commentId":10873162,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"andrewdkrauss"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10890998,"authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
That's a good point Andrew. How do we reconcile the "our way is the only way" teachings with tolerance without undermining the importance of the religious texts? I know the Bible tells us to love everyone. Many people don't seem capable of disagreeing and still being at peace with one another.
{"commentId":10890998,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10867098,"authorDomain":"BlueLeftHand"}
The Abrahamic Initiative is a project along these lines.
{"commentId":10867098,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"BlueLeftHand"}
- 2 votes
#3 - Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:55 AM EST{"commentId":10867136,"authorDomain":"augurwell"}
From what I've read so far, Kim, it appears to. You're talking about NILI? The National Interreligious Leadership Initiative? But that's just an imho, of course!
(*pinkgrins*!)
{"commentId":10867136,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"augurwell"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10869317,"authorDomain":"marxfan123"}
It's about time that the three monotheistic religion came together on a common belief in their faiths.
{"commentId":10869317,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"marxfan123"}
- 4 votes
#4 - Tue Nov 24, 2009 12:33 PM EST{"commentId":10870600,"authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
This is a good initiative and needs wider airing. There are many such initiatives but alas, they simply do not get an audience. Guess empty barrels make most noise. Even worse when the barrels have fundamentalists trapped within.
What is interesting in this bridge building exercise is that the Sheikh is a Sufi. The most fundamental sides of Islam arguably do not even recognize Sufis as Muslims. Do not know if the Minister and/or Rabbi also represent mainstream thinking for Christianity and/or Judaism.
Cheers JC.
{"commentId":10870600,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
- 4 votes
#5 - Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:23 PM EST{"commentId":10871265,"authorDomain":"templeboy"}
Rabbi Falcon is from the Reformed Movement, which is the most ideologically liberal thinking of the major movements.
Raat,
It doesn't matter what denominations they're from, so long as this is done with a persistence that will attract more and more people. We all "know" that these forums have been going on for years, but we are well below critical mass. They must organize more and more of their fellow clergymen. It's imperative and critical to the survival of society, and perhaps the planet.
{"commentId":10871265,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"templeboy"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":10871848,"authorDomain":"zomzom"}
Do not know if the Minister and/or Rabbi also represent mainstream thinking for Christianity and/or Judaism.
Unfortunately, you're probably right. I don't know who the Christian is, but to reverse the claim that "Christianity is the only way to God" would get you excommunicated from plenty of factions, since a fundamental tenant of both protestants and Catholics is that you can only get to heaven through belief in Jeshua as christ.
But it's still good to see them making an effort.
{"commentId":10871848,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"zomzom"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10871855,"authorDomain":"jcatom"}
The most fundamental sides of Islam arguably do not even recognize Sufis as Muslims.
Christians have a strong history of being intolerant of those outside of their own sects as well.
I think and hope that this is the kind of intolerance that is being addressed by these men. When there is that much divisiveness, even within a single religion, the interfaith gap seems like a very hard thing to overcome.
I agree with Jalmeno that they are or should be going for the more moderate people first and attempting to create a center circle of the faithful. Hopefully, in time, the small circles of fundamentalists that border this center circle will join the family of faith and realize the most truly fundamental goals of these religions.
{"commentId":10871855,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"jcatom"}
- 4 votes
{"commentId":10874314,"authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
Hopefully, in time, the small circles of fundamentalists that border this center circle will join the family of faith and realize the most truly fundamental goals of these religions.
Well put. In the meantime, we can help by giving intiatives such as these as high a profile as we can.
{"commentId":10874314,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"raatkiraani"}
- 2 votes
{"commentId":10870939,"authorDomain":"superchuck1968"}
We need more of these initiatives. We don't have to agree on which religion is best for us, but we do need to respect each other and not make blanket statements about religions we know next to nothing about.
P.S.
From a Christian standpoint, if someone commits violence in the name of Christianity or some Bible verse, they are NOT following Christ. That person following his/her own hatred.
{"commentId":10870939,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"superchuck1968"}
- 2 votes
#6 - Tue Nov 24, 2009 1:38 PM EST{"commentId":10886958,"authorDomain":"texassurf2000"}
From a Christian standpoint, if someone commits violence in the name of Christianity or some Bible verse, they areNOT following Christ. That person following his/her own hatred.
that may be true from your point of view but with religion you can not assume your interpretation is the "only" correct point of view
maybe god told him to kill - can you prove he did not hear it? nope.
if a suicide bomber believes he is doing the right thing then in his perception he is doing the right thing.
religion has different effects on different people
watch the movie - Frailty
{"commentId":10886958,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"texassurf2000"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":10891095,"authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
I agree with Charles on this one. Christ did not at all advocate hate and violence. You can pick other parts out of the Bible and use it as an excuse, but it is still not what Christ taught. A person's perception, mental issues, reading comprehension issues, or whatever lies within that person - not the Bible.
{"commentId":10891095,"threadId":"731781","contentId":"3538975","authorDomain":"cathyg-1"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":10882445,"authorDomain":"etradingitems27"}
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